Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

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Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by Beyonder on Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:06 am


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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by Kurei Natsumori on Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:39 pm

Considering New 52 superman has been getting tossed aside left and right vs Goku in DBZ (not assuming it's SS4 or SSGSS)


I'd say Goku, instant transmission gives him undeniable edge in speed. Not to mention he can combine it with any planetary destroying Kamehameha's.
With physical strength i'd easily give this to Superman BUT Goku has martial arts, LOTS of experience over Superman with that.

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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by Beyonder on Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:53 pm

@Kurei Natsumori wrote:Considering New 52 superman has been getting tossed aside left and right vs Goku in DBZ (not assuming it's SS4 or SSGSS)


I'd say Goku, instant transmission gives him undeniable edge in speed. Not to mention he can combine it with any planetary destroying Kamehameha's.
With physical strength i'd easily give this to Superman BUT Goku has martial arts, LOTS of experience over Superman with that.

Whoa.....hold on now

1. Instant Transmission=Teleport by all categories isn't speed.
2. Goku kamehameha isnt planetary...
3. Superman also has many physical/mental training and he has been trained in Martial arts by Batman and knows alien fighting styles.

Superman has to many advantage's over Goku (New 52 or not).


Last edited by Beyonder on Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by Kurei Natsumori on Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:28 pm

Knowing many fighting styles and utilizing them in combat is very different.

As for the Kamehameha, the only piece of evidence that I can think of at the moment is this Super Saiyan 1 from the Manga which is a direct source of DBZ and is completely canon.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/69026/1281799-db_v27_081.gif

^Goku is hit by Frieza with a blast powerful enough to destroy a planet, heck.. frieza did those kinds of attacks in base form which would suggest the attack now is definitely a Planet buster.
That was a SS1, imagine at SS3,  guaranteed Planet Buster for sure.


In terms of Matial Arts, despite being trained by Batman, Superman couldn't even land a punch against a skilled fighter like muhammad ali. Superman has rarely shown any type of martial arts and possibly shows a few high kicks or a couple roundhouses.
Goku on the other hand has been training since day 1, even against a MUCH stronger opponent than himself and has demonstrated his martial arts ALL OF HIS LIFE. On the other note, Goku does have a multitude of physical training with 10x gravity and more, lifted over 40 tons with EASE on his super saiyan 1 form. due to gravity with weight that equals about 400 Tons.
By the end of the manga Goku would be able to lift, considerably more even without super saiyan form as that 400ton description was during very beginning of the Buu arc where Goku gets a massive Zenkai Boost after Kid Buu and M. Vegeta.
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by Beyonder on Fri Aug 07, 2015 5:09 am

@Kurei Natsumori wrote:Knowing many fighting styles and utilizing them in combat is very different.

As for the Kamehameha, the only piece of evidence that I can think of at the moment is this Super Saiyan 1 from the Manga which is a direct source of DBZ and is completely canon.


^Goku is hit by Frieza with a blast powerful enough to destroy a planet, heck.. frieza did those kinds of attacks in base form which would suggest the attack now is definitely a Planet buster.
That was a SS1, imagine at SS3,  guaranteed Planet Buster for sure.


In terms of Matial Arts, despite being trained by Batman, Superman couldn't even land a punch against a skilled fighter like muhammad ali. Superman has rarely shown any type of martial arts and possibly shows a few high kicks or a couple roundhouses.
Goku on the other hand has been training since day 1, even against a MUCH stronger opponent than himself and has demonstrated his martial arts ALL OF HIS LIFE. On the other note, Goku does have a multitude of physical training with 10x gravity and more, lifted over 40 tons with EASE on his super saiyan 1 form. due to gravity with weight that equals about 400 Tons.
By the end of the manga Goku would be able to lift, considerably more even without super saiyan form as that 400ton description was during very beginning of the Buu arc where Goku gets a massive Zenkai Boost after Kid Buu and M. Vegeta.
Uh.......ill point out a few things here........

1. Frieza weakest form can planet bust? yet he couldnt do it on namek?.....thats a inconstant feat right on itself.

2. Muhammad Ali Vs Superman wasnt even a real fight and bringing it up is like anyone bringing up the laser feat that happened in the revival of Frieza.

3.
@Kurei Natsumori wrote:Goku does have a multitude of physical training with 10x gravity and more, lifted over 40 tons with EASE on his super saiyan 1 form. due to gravity with weight that equals about 400 Tons.
By the end of the manga Goku would be able to lift, considerably more even without super saiyan form as that 400ton description was during very beginning of the Buu arc where Goku gets a massive Zenkai Boost after Kid Buu and M. Vegeta


The gravity thing is incorrect the 40 ton feat was after the namek saga and during the cell or buu saga.....400 tons?.......Wont really measure up to Superman......

Superman has no limits within strength or his given abilities (no he is not omnipotent like some challenged people don't understand.)

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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by Kurei Natsumori on Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:19 pm

As for Frieza, clear example of BASE form planet Vegeta Destruction

In the other forms which scale a multitude higher. Same for Vegeta saying he was going to "Blow up the Earth".
Vegeta himself was known even at that Power level to be a small planet buster from the FIRST appearance of Dragon Ball Z.
He's never been known to even bluff before, either. Proof of the Proof to show consistency is here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnqtg0bte6w

Now compared to Frieza, who had to charge up enough power to destroy planet Vegeta you can assume that it is several times larger than Earth. Despite Goku not having the Physical feat of 5.972 sextillion metric tons, he can surely destroy planets even on his OWN base form.  Multiply that by the Super Saiyan 2. Which can be EQUAL to Cell when he was claiming to destroy the Galaxy  http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/2/23781/548120-cell_ss_buster.jpg

Support to Cell being a Solar System Buster
1) Akira Toriyama wrote it that way
2) Every piece of Media confirms this
3) A “Film Anime Comics” Guide (which is like an official guide) confirms this
4) If we look at story arcs and character progression Cell would need to logically be able to do this.


A super Saiyan 2 Gohan had fought this power in a clash with a SINGLE hand and won. Goku at that time was SSJ1 and had nearly tied. If he was a SSJ2 at that point he may have won. So in character to character comparison. A SSJ3, which is about 4x stronger than a SSJ2, should be able to destroy a Solar System, at a minimum... not to mention combine this with a Instant Transmission at point blank range... GG.
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by Beyonder on Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:08 am

Uh....Frieza not Goku.....so bringing him to compare isnt really important or relevant as both share different physiology and different powers and abilities as Frieza actually Planet bust Goku hasn't and even if he could he cant breath in space causing Superman to win.


Vegeta never Canon planet busted.....the YouTube video you linked here is a FILLER something non-canon and not by akira.....so the whole argument you placed isnt really relevant either just like the frieza point...


@Kurei Natsumori wrote:Support to Cell being a Solar System Buster
1) Akira Toriyama wrote it that way
2) Every piece of Media confirms this
3) A “Film Anime Comics” Guide (which is like an official guide) confirms this
4) If we look at story arcs and character progression Cell would need to logically be able to do this.


A super Saiyan 2 Gohan had fought this power in a clash with a SINGLE hand and won. Goku at that time was SSJ1 and had nearly tied. If he was a SSJ2 at that point he may have won. So in character to character comparison. A SSJ3, which is about 4x stronger than a SSJ2, should be able to destroy a Solar System, at a minimum... not to mention combine this with a Instant Transmission at point blank range... GG.
1. Akira never stated anything about Cell being Solar system its a mere hype/bluff.
2. Nothing confirms cell to be SS.....
3. Official Guides? Yet again I posted many things about the Kanzenshuu admitting AKIRA TORIYAMA doesn't WRITE THE GUIDES the COMPANY does they do the whole re-reading for him.
4. Yet.....nothing as you stated Proves this at all.

SS2 being solar system level? What.....noone in DBZ is even Solar system level not even Beerus is you can state what you want but nothing you stated would even be enough to put down Superman

Superman wins in strength
Superman wins in speed
Superman wins in durability
Superman wins in intelligence
Superman wins in DC

Goku has 0 Feats to put him above superman specially New 52 by good game....Goku doesn't and cant win.
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by Beyonder on Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:34 am

New 52 Superman Feats

Strength:


Striking Strength:



Intelligence:




Combat:


Speed:


Durability:

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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by 345rv5 on Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:54 pm

Superman stomps and here's why.


Goku's most recent feats (Dragon Ball Super/Dragon Ball Kai)
Unofreautnly Goku has no new feats on his own , however we do have some reasonable powerscaling to see how much further Goku has gone given Beerus and Whis are established to be far beyond anything in DGBT or Canon DBZ.




Goku  should at least be on par with this speed given Whis can casualty cross a Solar System in seconds.Given Beerus is at least 3/4's as fast as Whis, that makes him around this fast as well. How fast is  Beerus and Whis moving? Going by this frame here of this GIF, this is a 5 second  feat  but it gives  a a good scale of how far and fast Whis traveled.

The length of a Solar System is about  2 light years long. Whis seemed to cross that within 2 seconds flat, to cross 2 lightyears per second, you would be needed to move in a single light-year per second.  To move  a lightyear per second, you need to be moving at around   31,558,149 million times the speed of light.Not  a bad low end speed feat.     Meaning at it's  lowest point doing the math here, Beerus and Whis have covered at least  108,000 light years in  30 minutes


However that's at bare minimum speed! Here's a decent calc from someone who is better than me at calcs to explain the full potential speed.
www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?…

Beerus' Speed

Using Whis' Staff Speed

Well this one is simple to do.

Essentially Beerus sends Whis on an errand and gives him three minutes in total to complete the task. Beerus being the impatient guy he is doesn't even wait the complete three minutes and instead takes it upon himself to fly across a distance of possibly millions of astronomical units in 1 minute 20 seconds.

It took Whis roughly 1 minute to fly the same distance, with his staff mind you. Here are the relevant scans:



Not much to do here since our good buddy Nevermind has done all the dirty work for us.

If it took Whis 1 minute to cross the distance and Beerus 1 minute 20 then we can easily find Beerus' speed since we have Whis' speed already. And since we have concrete, canon time frames there should be no issue with this whatsoever. The very fact that Beerus is impatient and gave Whis a strict time frame means it is also fair to assume Whis was moving at his highest possible speed.

Pretty much all grounds covered, right?

60 seconds = 4,522,092,665 c
80 seconds = x

4,522,092,665*(60/80) = x

80 seconds = 3,391,569,498 c (as Beerus took 1/3rd more time. There is an inverse relationship)

3 billion times faster than the speed of light. Incontestable. However, it does sort of make sense and does not necessarily contradict anything. At no point did it mention Beerus needed Whis to travel to Kaio's planet, he's just extremely lazy so it'd make sense he wouldn't want to fly there himself. Plus it would no doubt get tiring. It also sort of alludes to the fact that Whis' staff itself is probably fueled by Whis' own ki, because it isn't exactly much faster than Beerus' own movement speed.

Using Beerus' Nebula (Non-Visible)



Quote:
Originally Posted by willyvereb
If I assume Beers' nebula is about 20 lightyears wide which is reasonable then it needs to be circa 37,000 to 370,000 lightyears away to be invisible.
This only a lazy calc assuming 35 degrees (camera visuals), 1000 pixel picture height and 1 or 0.1 pixel apparent size of the unseen nebula.

Anyways, with this if Whis traveled this under a minute that'd roughly require 16 to 160 billion times FTL speed.
Which makes Beers about 12 to 120 billion times FTL.

So yeah, we actually no longer nee that BoG feat at all.
If anything I like this more for the same reason others mentioned.
Whether canonical or not the use of the map was a bit iffy with the old calc.
A little addition from Will. The BoG numbers don't matter too much, the very fact that his Nebula clearly isn't visible means at a bare minimum Beerus crossed thousands of light years in minutes for fun.

So  At bare minium,  Beerus and Whis are in the Tens of Millions of times faster than Light, at their highest point, up to 120 Billion times the speed of light.

Beerus also easily destroyed half a planet with a single finger poke. To comprehend the sheer effortlessly scale of that attack. The weight of a finger weighs about 100 grams, nearly 1/4 of a pound.  A punch from a heavyweight boxer is around hundred of Joules, the peak of human strength is around 1,200 Lbs. Why am i bring this up  ?Because going by this out from Beerus, it means he was using far less than 1/10,00th of his full power blowing up planets, which confirms the Official Translation of the  Dazisheu regarding Beeru's power.

Beerus usually uses his power to destroy planets,[5] but he is strong enough to destroy entire solar systems with ease (as said by King Kai, who described Beerus' energy as like a 'freight train') and can even destroy entire galaxies, although this is apparently enough to severely tire him out.

Beerus is Muilt galaxy buster at best given it's stated he get's tired out  blowing up entire galaxies, which is plural for more than one Galaxy.That means that any character below Beerus is not a Galaxy buster or even Universe Buster. Only Galaxy to Muilt Galaxy level unless future feats confirm the opposite . At the very least , he's a casual Solar System buster. Which is further confirmed by character statements in the manga.

This is all important to factor how strong SSJG Goku and SSJG 2 Goku is  given he kept up with Beerus at allegedly 70% of his full power.  His SSJG 2 Form is near Beerus level as it's stated that Beerus thinks that he might lose if Goku and Vegeta both fought him in SSJG 2 form.  Honestly there's not much feats Death Battle can go for on the DBZ side  so  let's recap a few   feats SSJG Goku is far superior to.

He's far stronger than Fireza (Namek Saga)who can blow up Namek, a planet 500 times larger than Earth.

He's far stronger than Cell who  can blow up an entire Solar System( Depsite claims from DBZ haters and OBD alleging it's hyperbole)

He's far stronger than Kid Buu who is established to be at least Muilt Solar System and can slowly destroy a Galaxy within 3-5 years

And he's far stronger than Omega Shenron who at best is a Galaxy buster, i know this is technically filler but Death Battle uses all continuities according to their own word.

So let's sun up how strong SSJG Goku and his stronger state is based on powerscaling from  weaker characters and verisons of himself.


Destructive Capacity: At Least Multi Solar System level  via powerscaling(far stronger than his  Super Saiyan 3 state. far stronger than Kid Buu who is slowly capable of Galaxy busting in a few years. Comparable to Beerus two nearby stars in a single attack. Whis, a character far stronger than Beerus, also said if Beerus gets angry, he will easily destroy the solar system "in the wink of an eye") At least Galaxy level + (Matched Beerus at Muilt Galaxy level + at 70% ) Potentially Muilt Galaxy level  ( If powerscaling from DBGT   is allowed,  It's arguably on par or superior to SSJ4 Gogeta who was casually stronger than Omega Shenron who can Galaxy bust at full power and slowly erode the Universe overtime)  At Least Muilt Galaxy Level + in SSJG 2(  Stronger than Beerus at 70% power,  stronger than SSJ 4 Gogeta.   Goku should be on par with a full Beerus who Whis stated that Beerus at full power can destroy entire galaxies ablet it it would exhaust him deeply. ) Potentially Galaxy Cluster level +. At least Galaxy Cluster level amped with Sprit Bomb

Speed :Massively FTL+ via power scaling (  At least  120,000,000,000 c (Can keep up with Beerus who flew to a planet at 3/4th the speed of Whis. Can easily intercept and counter the attacks of the top tiers in DBZ, should be around Whis' level who can at least cover a Galactic distance in 30 minutes.  Up to Billions of times the speed of light going by Whis's full travel speed )

Lifting Strength: At least Muitl Stellar Class ( Has held back blasts that can level Planets and Solar Systems in much weaker forms and held the weight of a cubic meter of Neurton star like metal in base, his God state makes him far stronger than that)

Striking Strength:  Galactic Class ( Far weaker Goku states from both DBZ and GT have hurt characters who can tank planet and star level attacks, this Goku can hurt someone who is implied at least Galaxy level and stronger than Omega Shenron, Kid Buu and  every villain goku has fought combined.On par with 70% Beerus and Golden Frieza)


Durability : Muilt Galaxy level +( Superior to SSJ4 Gogeta)

Superman's recent feats ( New 52 Superman)

Now time for New 52's speed feats !Unlike  Goku, Superman has a ton of new feats









1 - These images come from two different comics,i have used the first one to better show the size of the ship. The Braniac’s mothership is many times bigger than earth and it was falling towards our planet at 36.000 miles per hour but Superman and Martian Manhunter could overcome that momentum and successfully pushed back this huge ship.




2-Superman tested his powers into Dr. Veritas's lab which is situated into the core of our planet where he could lift for 5 days straight the equivalent weight of the earth thanks to a graviton matrix without being exposed to the sun’s light and without even reaching the true limits of his strength. Shay Veritas wanted to go even further by opening a pandimensional whormhole in order test his real power but they both agreed that this method was too dangerous since it could suck the whole planet.





A young Superman (before the JL was formed) could break the Hal Jordan's constructs. A Green Latern has neough power to easily power the Sun with their power rings and Solar System bust.




4 - A young Superman could easily one shot Hal Jordan. In the last two panels he is shattering another of his constructs. Again, the energy potency of a Green Lantern is established to be at least Solar System level+




6 - Orion is stating that no one has ever punched him as hard as Superman in his lifetime. (I don't know if this statement can be taken seriously,still it could probably be one of the most powerful punches he has ever taken and at this point of the battle Superman was holding back so this is still a considerable feat.)It should be noted Orion is at least Skyfather level  or Galaxy level given he has easily overwhelm an entire Lantern Corps.[21]  




1 - These images come from 2 different comics.Surviving and escaping from a black hole plus travelling for two months non-stop into deep space.






Casually forging in the sun./ Taking a blast from Starfire and saying that he has been inside of a star more than once.Meaning he can casually shurg off Solar System and even Muilt Solar System level attacks with utter ease.



1 - Superman could escape from a black hole and fly from the end of the end universe to earth in two months.These images come from 3 different comics.This implies Superman can travel at massviely FTL speeds.That alone makes Superman  273,750,000,000c or  over 273 Billion times the speed of light.



Fruther confrimed   with him casually bltizing Red Hood and his crew  while they travel from Pluto to Earth via telporting machnes, with ease.

And still able to react to Flash who is the king of speed in most of fiction

He even overpowered and overwheilemed Darkseid , a being known for extreme power and strength  and known to be at least a casual Galaxy buster without any amped power.


Destructive Capacity: At least Muilt Solar System level casually(Stronger than Green Laterns, easily shattered Green Laternen's Engery Constructs )  At least Muilt Galaxy level fighting seriousl(Has kept up with Orion who  can overpower the entire Green Latern Corp and on par with    ) At least Muilt Galaxy level + estimated full power  ( Overpowered and defeated Darkseid, one of the most powerful beings within the DC verse who  is causally stronger than Galatric threats)Likely far higher via sundipping ( His New 52 power seems no weaker than his Post Crsis Form so   sundipping  would  likely make him as strong as a full powered Superman from Post Crsis) At least Universe to Muitlverse level

Speed :Massively FTL+( Casually outpaced the speed of teleporation from Pluto to Earth, bltized FTL characters, escpaed from a Blackhole and then traveled two months throughout the end of space across the Universe)Likely far higher via sundipping

Lifting Strength: At least Muitl Stellar Class (Has held the weight of entire planets while sundrained and weakened, has  managed to lift up spaceships dwarfing Earth in size)

Striking Strength:  At least  Galactic Class ( easily shattered Green Laternen's Engery Constructs, damaged  Darkseid level characters) likely higher

Durability : Muilt Galaxy level +( Tanked Supernovas and Black Holes and withstood blows from Darkseid and Galaxy tier characters)Potentially Universe level +

As you can see, my problem isn't with Superman beating Goku easily, if anything thanks to my own research, i knew this was going to happen and quite frankly, i don't mind or care.  My problem is Death battle using Post Crisis Feats at the end for New 52, abelt it they were  trying tho show how boundless Superman's powers are, use New 52 feats. They're  nearly around that level anyways and this is not regarding the fact these were done by a younger Superman.

Another problem  is  them claiming DBZ is Muiltverisal with the Muiltverisal Sprit Bomb. It's not the least bit accurate. DBZ is nowhere near Universe level. If anything  they're  barely confirmed to be Galaxy busters given no actual Galaxy busting feats exists in canon and the only thing we have go by is Author Statements or Dragon Ball GT.   Even if DBZ was confirmed to have Universe Busters, Superman still solos given he's token on the likes of Dakrseid who can destroy Muitlverses. A muitlverse is 10^500 the size of the Observable Universe, the strongest amped up Supermen can take on people with this much firepower.
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by 345rv5 on Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:23 pm

@Kurei Natsumori wrote:As for Frieza, clear example of BASE form planet Vegeta Destruction

In the other forms which scale a multitude higher. Same for Vegeta saying he was going to "Blow up the Earth".
Vegeta himself was known even at that Power level to be a small planet buster from the FIRST appearance of Dragon Ball Z.
He's never been known to even bluff before, either. Proof of the Proof to show consistency is here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnqtg0bte6w

Now compared to Frieza, who had to charge up enough power to destroy planet Vegeta you can assume that it is several times larger than Earth. Despite Goku not having the Physical feat of 5.972 sextillion metric tons, he can surely destroy planets even on his OWN base form.  Multiply that by the Super Saiyan 2. Which can be EQUAL to Cell when he was claiming to destroy the Galaxy  http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/2/23781/548120-cell_ss_buster.jpg

Support to Cell being a Solar System Buster
1) Akira Toriyama wrote it that way
2) Every piece of Media confirms this
3) A “Film Anime Comics” Guide (which is like an official guide) confirms this
4) If we look at story arcs and character progression Cell would need to logically be able to do this.


A super Saiyan 2 Gohan had fought this power in a clash with a SINGLE hand and won. Goku at that time was SSJ1 and had nearly tied. If he was a SSJ2 at that point he may have won. So in character to character comparison. A SSJ3, which is about 4x stronger than a SSJ2, should be able to destroy a Solar System, at a minimum... not to mention combine this with a Instant Transmission at point blank range... GG.

Cell is only Solar System level at best and even then that's debatable via powerscaling.

If we accept that a power level of 10,000 can blow up the Earth via core busting, we can establish that a power level of 10,000=57.3 Zetatons of TNT or the GBE of Earth.

Powerscaling this by 12,000 times which is the difference between Fireza and Sayain Saga characters and Fireza's maximum DC is only 687.8 Yottatons, only 1.42 times the GBE of Juptier.

Powerscaling that to Cell who is 1,000-10,000 times as powerful as Fireza with Future Trunks ( Pre ROAST) being 10 Firezas, Androids of canon timeline and Super Piccolo being 100 Firezas,Andorid 16 and a full power Imprefecet Cell being 200 Firezas, Semi Prefect Cell being 1,000 friezas, Prefect Cell being 10,000 firezas and Super Prefect Cell being 100,0000 Cells. Super Prefect Cell at the very least is only 68.75 Tenatons, just halfway around Star level by powerscaling going by the manga which doesn't make him Solar System level.

However facotring the anime on the other hand does via indriect feat of Super Vegeta.
If anything allow me to do some scaling and numbers of my own about Vegeta's Final Flash.


First picture

Earth: 304px
Shockwave of Final Flash's backblast:135px
Beam widith: 13 px

Second picture

Vegeta's explosion: 23 px
Size of stars: 4 px

Now for the numbers
Earth:12,750km
Shockwave of Final Flash:5,662 km
Beam Widith:545 km

The Second thing to calc is the distance of the beam itself and how it went.

The Beam is fired from Earth to Space between 4:29 to to 4:39 of the video before it exploded, creating a Supernova like exploison from a distance.
The closet star to Earth is Proxima Centauri, which is 4.36 lightyears away. For Vegeta's blast to reach 4.36 Lightyears in 10 seconds, Vegeta's blast would be traveling 2,616,000,000,000 miles per second or over 14,064,516 times the speed of light. Approximately 176 times faster than 100% Fireza's speed.

Now time for the concussive force of the beam itself traveling at 14 Million times the speed of light

Beam Widith:545km
Beam Length: 42,100,439,000,000 km( 4.36 ly)
Shockwave of Final Flash:5,562 km
Beam speed:2,616,000,000,000 miles per second

545x42,100,439,000,000x5,562x 2,616,000,000,000=3.33850361550187e+32 joules going by piercing energy of the beam
www.onlineconversion.com/energ…
Using this Online conversion between Joules and Megatons, we get this number.
79 792 151 422 000 000 megatons of TNT

Power of the beam traveling through space: 79.792 Zetatons of TNT

But that's hardly all in terms of overall power.

Now time to calc the yield of how much energy is really in the blast itself going by this asteroid calcutor

Yeild of Vegeta's shockwave :1.320E+11gigatons or 13,200,000,000 Gigatons or 13.2 Exatons, nearly half the GBE of the Moon from the shockwave alone

And that's just within a 5,562km radius of the blast, now time for the fun part

42,100,439,000,000/5,562km=7569298633.585041
7569298633.585041x13.2 Exatons=99.915 Ninatons
99.15 Ninatonsx 79.792 =7.911 Tenatons

Actual piercing power of Beam:7.911 Tenatons

And finally the exploison from a distance.

Vegeta's explosion in space: ( 5.75x the sun's size)
Star( Presumably sun sized): 1,391,400 km
www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/T…

Using the star desotryer calc to type in the mass and size of a star and using Online conversion to Joules again, i end up with this being Vegeta's overall Destructive power.

So overall we get this for Vegeta's Final Flash
1,037,045,889,100,000,000,000,000,000 megatons of TNT or 1.037 Tenakilotons

Vegeta's shockwave:13.2 Exatons of TNT (Nearly half the GBE of the Moon)
Vegeta's beam piercing power:7.911 Tenatons of TNT (2.64 times the power needed to bust the smallest Star VB 10)
Vegeta's Final flash exploison:1.037 Tenakilotons (6.3 the power needed to destroy our sun)


I think this calculation i did alone gives more than enough grounds to back the"Hyperbole" that Cell can Solar System bust, espeically when Fireza who's far weaker than Cell can already casually planet bust and his full power is enough to destroy a Juptier sized planet.



It should also be noted that Vegeta was able to wound Prefect Cell with that move( Ablet Cell was holding back and wanted Vegeta to hit him so he can demoralize him in showing how futile his efforts were), why does that matter?

Because Goku's Kamehahaha is later shown doing the same to Cell and it's stated that Goku at this point was stronger than Vegeta by a significant margin. If Vegeta's Final Flash did around 1.037 Tenakilotons, Goku's was easily 10.37 Tenakiliotons while Cell who was only using half of his power fighting Goku can gather up as much as 20.74 Tenakilotons, which just falls shy of the 23.9 Tenakilotons needed to make a Supernova ,however given Super Prefect Cell is 10 times stronger than ever thanks to Zenkai therefore Super Prefect Cell would have up to 207.4 Tenakilotons or 8.67 Foe, the bare minuim needed to Solar System bust is 5.709 Foe. In other words, going by powerscaling and feats, Cell is basically a Solar System buster.

So going by powerscaling and feats. Manga Super Prefect Cell is Small Star level via powerscaling and anime Cell is Large Star to Solar System level.


Onto the Buu Saga in which we get these readings.

Super Prefect Cell: 1x
Dabura/ Eastern Supreme Kai: 1x
Fat Buu: 2 x casually, , 10 x full power enraged
Goku(Supressed ki) 1/10th base, 5x SSJ , 10 SSJ 2
Vegeta( Early Buu saga)1/10th base, 5x SSJ , 10X Majin Vegeta
Goten ( Pre ROAST): 1/1000th base, 1/20th SSJ
Trunks( Pre ROAST): 1/1000th base, 1/20th SSJ
Gotenks ( Pre ROAST) 5x
Evil Buu: 100x
Super Buu:20,000x
Goten ( Post ROAST): 1/100th base, 1/2th SSJ
Trunks( Post ROAST) 1/100th base, 1/2th SSJ
Vegeta( Massive post Zenkai) 50x base, 2,500x SSJ , 5,000xSSJ
Goku( full power ) 50xbase 2,500x SSJ, 5,000x SSJ 2, 20,000x SSJ3
Gotenks( Post ROAST) 50 X base, 2,500 x SSJ, 20,000x SSJ 3
Goku( full power/Post Zenkai ) 500xbase 25,000x SSJ, 50,000x SSJ 2, 200,000x SSJ3
Mystic Gohan: 100,000x
Kid Buu: 200,000 x
Buutenks: 2,000,000x
Buuhan:80,000,000x
SSJ 4/Vegito: 800,000,000
Super Vegito:40,000,000,000

So let's go by Kid Buu being over 200,000 times stronger than Prefect Cell. That puts Kid Buu at maximum 575.3 Foe or the power of 575.3 Supernovas at least going by the manga verison by powerscaling, essentially High Solar System to Low Muilt SOlar System level.

If we factor in the anime, Kid Buu


Time to see how strong Kid Buu really is .

This is from the flashback in which Kid Buu busted an entire Galaxy over a period of a few years.

Unknown Galaxy Buu attacked: 279px
Kid Buu's exploisons: 3px each

Therefore we get something like this

Galaxy( Assuming it the same size as the Miky Way Galaxy): 100,000ly
Kid Buu's Ki blasts:1,080 ly
Potential amount of stars busted via radius of exploison:3,225,806,461.612903
Engery need to bust the Sun:163.19 Tenatons

To get the yeild of the attack, do this
3,225,806,461.612903x163.19=526,419,356,468.504 Tenatons

Now divide that by 23.9 Tenakilotons to get the final result of Buu's power

526,419,356,468.504 Tenatons/ 23.9 Tenakilotons
22,025,914.42839789 Foe

Kid Buu's Ki blast yeild: 22.026 MegaFoe

However as powerful as this is, Superman New 52 is much stronger. His base power level is at least Solar System level + and that's him holding back considerably. When he's serious, he can beat people like Darkseid who is at least Galaxy level casually and far above the likes of Beerus.

Also Planet Vegeta isn't several times larger than Earth, it's confirmed at least Earth size.As seen with King Kai's own planet which despite being 10 Quntillion times smaller than Earth, has a Gravity field 10 times stronger than Earth so size of planet=/=gravity.

Also Superman moves at Zeptosecond speeds, even IT is not fast enough to react to him or catch him offgaurd. Especially when his senses can easily sense anything within at least a Galaxy distance.


Not to mention as seen here, Kamehameha waves are made of Plasma like energy and presumably around the same heat and temperatures as stars at there strongest, Superman who can absorb Solar energy and even energy in general as long as it's not Supernatural would easily absorb the Kamehameha Wave,especially given the wavelength of the energy of a Kamehameha would be essentially like a Blue Sun to Superman.

Superman still crubstomps Goku,The gap in power is still too great even with a 100 years training.
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by 345rv5 on Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:33 pm

@Beyonder wrote:
@Kurei Natsumori wrote:Knowing many fighting styles and utilizing them in combat is very different.

As for the Kamehameha, the only piece of evidence that I can think of at the moment is this Super Saiyan 1 from the Manga which is a direct source of DBZ and is completely canon.


^Goku is hit by Frieza with a blast powerful enough to destroy a planet, heck.. frieza did those kinds of attacks in base form which would suggest the attack now is definitely a Planet buster.
That was a SS1, imagine at SS3,  guaranteed Planet Buster for sure.


In terms of Matial Arts, despite being trained by Batman, Superman couldn't even land a punch against a skilled fighter like muhammad ali. Superman has rarely shown any type of martial arts and possibly shows a few high kicks or a couple roundhouses.
Goku on the other hand has been training since day 1, even against a MUCH stronger opponent than himself and has demonstrated his martial arts ALL OF HIS LIFE. On the other note, Goku does have a multitude of physical training with 10x gravity and more, lifted over 40 tons with EASE on his super saiyan 1 form. due to gravity with weight that equals about 400 Tons.
By the end of the manga Goku would be able to lift, considerably more even without super saiyan form as that 400ton description was during very beginning of the Buu arc where Goku gets a massive Zenkai Boost after Kid Buu and M. Vegeta.
Uh.......ill point out a few things here........

1. Frieza weakest form can planet bust? yet he couldnt do it on namek?.....thats a inconstant feat right on itself.

2. Muhammad Ali Vs Superman wasnt even a real fight and bringing it up is like anyone bringing up the laser feat that happened in the revival of Frieza.

3.
@Kurei Natsumori wrote:Goku does have a multitude of physical training with 10x gravity and more, lifted over 40 tons with EASE on his super saiyan 1 form. due to gravity with weight that equals about 400 Tons.
By the end of the manga Goku would be able to lift, considerably more even without super saiyan form as that 400ton description was during very beginning of the Buu arc where Goku gets a massive Zenkai Boost after Kid Buu and M. Vegeta


The gravity thing is incorrect the 40 ton feat was after the namek saga and during the cell or buu saga.....400 tons?.......Wont really measure up to Superman......

Superman has no limits within strength or his given abilities (no he is not omnipotent like some challenged people don't understand.)


Frieza weakest form can planet bust? yet he couldnt do it on namek?.....thats a inconstant feat right on itself.

Actually Namek is much bigger than Earth going by accepted calcs and thus harder to blow up, also Fireza did admit to holding back too much power out of fear of killing himself but your point still stands.

2. Muhammad Ali Vs Superman wasnt even a real fight and bringing it up is like anyone bringing up the laser feat that happened in the revival of Frieza.


That was a Pre Crsis Superman, why was this DBZ fanboy bringing up something that doesn't apply to New 52 Superman/ Also considering Pre Crisis Superman can tank a Big Bang, this means by DBZtard logic Muhammad Ail is Universe level because he hurt PC Superman and Muhammad Ail can solo the DBZverse.

The 40 tons feat people point out is a massive outiler considering his much weaker kid state can easily lift boulders and even move 200 ton rock formations.

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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by 345rv5 on Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:56 pm

@Beyonder wrote:Uh....Frieza not Goku.....so bringing him to compare isnt really important or relevant as both share different physiology and different powers and abilities as Frieza actually Planet bust Goku hasn't and even if he could he cant breath in space causing Superman to win.


Vegeta never Canon planet busted.....the YouTube video you linked here is a FILLER something non-canon and not by akira.....so the whole argument you placed isnt really relevant either just like the frieza point...


@Kurei Natsumori wrote:Support to Cell being a Solar System Buster
1) Akira Toriyama wrote it that way
2) Every piece of Media confirms this
3) A “Film Anime Comics” Guide (which is like an official guide) confirms this
4) If we look at story arcs and character progression Cell would need to logically be able to do this.


A super Saiyan 2 Gohan had fought this power in a clash with a SINGLE hand and won. Goku at that time was SSJ1 and had nearly tied. If he was a SSJ2 at that point he may have won. So in character to character comparison. A SSJ3, which is about 4x stronger than a SSJ2, should be able to destroy a Solar System, at a minimum... not to mention combine this with a Instant Transmission at point blank range... GG.
1. Akira never stated anything about Cell being Solar system its a mere hype/bluff.
2. Nothing confirms cell to be SS.....
3. Official Guides? Yet again I posted many things about the Kanzenshuu admitting AKIRA TORIYAMA doesn't WRITE THE GUIDES the COMPANY does they do the whole re-reading for him.
4. Yet.....nothing as you stated Proves this at all.

SS2 being solar system level? What.....noone in DBZ is even Solar system level not even Beerus is you can state what you want but nothing you stated would even be enough to put down Superman

Superman wins in strength
Superman wins in speed
Superman wins in durability
Superman wins in intelligence
Superman wins in DC

Goku has 0 Feats to put him above superman specially New 52 by good game....Goku doesn't and cant win.

I have to disagree with you there. Beerus is established to be casually a Solar System buster given he blew up two suns with ease to the point Whis reversed time to fix it and given that was a plot point in Revival of F, it's semi confrimed as their state of power.

Also i disagree immensely that Fireza's power is different from that of Z characters, Z characters can match his ki which has shown to planet bust and Fireza's base state did blow up a Earth sized planet with ease. Going by powerscaling alone, this puts Buu Sagas within at least the Large Star to Solar System level range going purely by the manga alone, factoring the Anime, they reach Low Muilt Solar System level.

I do agree that Cell's Solar System busting is debatable .Going by powerscaling in the manga, he's only Small Star level. Going by the anime which has Vegeta at least Large Star level in Ascend SSSJ.

Beerus usually uses his power to destroy planets,[5] but he is strong enough to destroy entire solar systems with ease (as said by King Kai, who described Beerus' energy as like a 'freight train') and can even destroy entire galaxies, although this is apparently enough to severely tire him out.


Beerus is Muilt galaxy buster at best given it's stated he get's tired out blowing up entire galaxies, which is plural for more than one Galaxy.That means that any character below Beerus is not a Galaxy buster or even Universe Buster. Only Galaxy to Muilt Galaxy level unless future feats confirm the opposite . At the very least , he's a casual Solar System buster. Which is further confirmed by character statements in the manga.

But that aside even if we accept Beerus at Galaxy level to Muilt Galaxy level and Goku is comparable to this power level.Superman holding back alone is at least Muilt Solar System level casually given he's stronger than Green Laterns and easily shattered Green Laternen's Engery Constructs, At least Muilt Galaxy level fighting seriously given Superman has kept up with Orion who can overpower the entire Green Latern Corp and and At least Muilt Galaxy level + to Universe level + estimated full power given he has overpowered and defeated Darkseid, one of the most powerful beings within the DC verse who is causally stronger than Galactic threats)Likely far higher via sundipping ( His New 52 power seems no weaker than his Post Crsis Form so sundipping would likely make him as strong as a full powered Superman from Post Crsis)

Goku at his best only eqauls Superman toying around and i agree Superman outclasses Goku on every level
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by Beyonder on Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:23 pm

We dont use Power scaling and we dont do calculations specially from Naruto forums which are both methods are 100% speculation from fans to fans unless its stated in the OP description.
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by 345rv5 on Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:30 pm

@Beyonder wrote:We dont use Power scaling and we dont do calculations specially from Naruto forums which are both methods are 100% speculation from fans to fans unless its stated in the OP description.

Okay, i was just saying for the sake of playing devils advocate really but then again it doesn't make a bit of difference in this matchup either way. Goku could use SSJG Vegtio and fuse with his GT SSJ4 Gogeta counterpart using Porata and train for 100 years and even with that power,Goku still loses to Superman. That's how badly outmatched Goku is when you look at direct feats.
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by Beyonder on Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:35 pm

And now when people look at your comment lol they will automatically tag you in ever DBZ based Battle I personally like both in all honestly I just hate seeing 1 character low balled and the other one just stated to be over powered I mean your welcome to make respect threads with Powerscaling/calculations or without Powerscaling/calculations in the CAV discussion.
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by 345rv5 on Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:43 pm

@Beyonder wrote:And now when people look at your comment lol they will automatically tag you in ever DBZ based Battle I personally like both in all honestly I just hate seeing 1 character low balled and the other one just stated to be over powered I mean your welcome to make respect threads with Powerscaling/calculations or without Powerscaling/calculations in the CAV discussion.

Okay then, just say glad we share the same views here. Personally i haven't read much of the comics but i deeply respect Superman even though i'm more of a DBZ fan.

I like to have both characters at maximum power of feats which includes calculations and powerscaling relevant to the respective series.When i do make threads here, i would allow powerscaling of both series,calculations and direct feats.But that's just me.

I'll make sure to keep presctive of this and be more aware of OP rules in the future.
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by Beyonder on Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:52 pm

And I would be fine with that and thanks for understand your the first person who hasn't attacked me on such a small thing I mean I would rather have the OP give what's allowed and what isnt before someone asks and gets the debate to simply change because of it but I got a good match for you.
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by 345rv5 on Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:06 am

@Beyonder wrote:And I would be fine with that and thanks for understand your the first person who hasn't attacked me on such a small thing I mean I would rather have the OP give what's allowed and what isnt before someone asks and gets the debate to simply change because of it but I got a good match for you.

Well we have different opinions to things however it's to the same conclusion,there's really no point in arguing the methods we get to reaching said conclusion when the results are the same.
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by Beyonder on Wed Aug 26, 2015 1:56 am

@345rv5 wrote:
@Beyonder wrote:And I would be fine with that and thanks for understand your the first person who hasn't attacked me on such a small thing I mean I would rather have the OP give what's allowed and what isnt before someone asks and gets the debate to simply change because of it but I got a good match for you.

Well we have different opinions to things however it's to the same conclusion,there's really no point in arguing the methods we get to reaching said conclusion when the results are the same.
Well if one can point out inconsistencies within the power scaling and the calculations then people find themselves troubled on the debate at hand. I mean image calculations seem more logical to me than Power scaling and calculations so I also allow those.
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by 345rv5 on Wed Aug 26, 2015 4:28 am

@Beyonder wrote:
@345rv5 wrote:
@Beyonder wrote:And I would be fine with that and thanks for understand your the first person who hasn't attacked me on such a small thing I mean I would rather have the OP give what's allowed and what isnt before someone asks and gets the debate to simply change because of it but I got a good match for you.

Well we have different opinions to things however it's to the same conclusion,there's really no point in arguing the methods we get to reaching said conclusion when the results are the same.
Well if one can point out inconsistencies within the power scaling and the calculations then people find themselves troubled on the debate at hand. I mean image calculations seem more logical to me than Power scaling and calculations so I also allow those.

Okay fair enough, my quesiton is how do i make a post ?
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by 345rv5 on Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:56 pm

@Beyonder wrote:And I would be fine with that and thanks for understand your the first person who hasn't attacked me on such a small thing I mean I would rather have the OP give what's allowed and what isnt before someone asks and gets the debate to simply change because of it but I got a good match for you.

How do you creat threads on this site, i have some fight ideas i want to put here.
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Re: Superman (New 52) Vs Goku (Dragon Ball Z)

Post by Beyonder on Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:59 pm


Should be a "New Topic" image in desktop view on the left hand side of th screen.

If you want to post pictures
Code:
[img] Image Link [/img]
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